Natives getting restless now
By W.C. Varones ~ March 16th, 2010 @ 6:27 pm
Our friend Leslie Eastman reports from the San Diego Code Red ObamaCare protest.
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March 16th, 2010 at 6:47 pm
Kucinich pledges to vote *yes.*
March 16th, 2010 at 9:04 pm
This thing is more unpopular now than when they barely passed it a few months back. Also, we are this much closer to election season.
WE DON’T WANT THIS BILL.
Polls consistently show START OVER.
No these damnable fools want to try to “Deem” it passed. How f’ing stupid is that?
Is it any surprise no one trusts these bastards anymore???
You libs like putting these assholes in charge of everything???
Ever thought of maybe trying to get some of the power BACK from DC for a change? That way these idiots can’t do as much harm?
March 16th, 2010 at 9:23 pm
WE DON’T WANT THIS BILL.
There is a segment of America that wouldn’t want any version of the bill. Any version. Because these people want to drown the government in a bathtub.
There is another segment of America that would want this version of the bill, if they weren’t unwittingly listening to the spin delivered by the above segment of America, plus the propaganda by the loudspeakers of the insurance industry.
Polls consistently show START OVER.
Why? So that the GOP can impede the process all over again? As George Bush used to say, “Fool me once…uh…” The GOP had its chance, but choose to squawk about Death Panels.
I would be willing to support starting over, if the GOP weren’t being categorically disingenuous in the request.
March 16th, 2010 at 9:25 pm
Should be “chose”.
March 16th, 2010 at 9:38 pm
Let’s not pretend the bill is more unpopular than it really is.
March 16th, 2010 at 9:45 pm
Dennis Kucinich obviously will vote yes….non-story. Yes, Jake, it’s a very popular bill. Continue to melt the Congressional switchboard.
March 16th, 2010 at 9:50 pm
Very popular, no. Very unpopular, also, no.
Yeah, yeah, I know. Wingnuts being disingenuous. News at 11.
March 17th, 2010 at 4:31 am
Ah, the kind progressive speaks all-knowingly, all-lovingly, all-caringly: There is another segment of America that would want this version of the bill, if they weren’t unwittingly listening to the spin delivered by the above segment of America, plus the propaganda by the loudspeakers of the insurance industry.
STUPID PROLES!!!! OBEY YOUR BETTERS!!! YOU WANT THIS BILL EVEN IF YOU KEEP SAYING YOU DON’T!!!
Boob.
March 17th, 2010 at 5:10 am
FACT CHECK: Premiums would rise under Obama plan
By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR (AP) – 5 hours ago
March 17th, 2010 at 5:12 am
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/03/17/exclusive-study-shows-obamacare-will-destroy-as-many-as-700000-jobs-by-2019/
March 17th, 2010 at 5:23 am
Ah, the kind progressive speaks all-knowingly, all-lovingly, all-caringly:
And the kind conservative responded all-knowingly, all-lovingly, all caringly…
Boob.
March 17th, 2010 at 5:29 am
Very popular, no. Very unpopular, also, no.
…..
Er, a majority are opposed to it.
March 17th, 2010 at 5:31 am
Virginia State Lawsuit Awaits Health Care Bill
I am informed this morning that Virginia’s state Attorney General, Ken Cuccinelli, will mount a legal challenge to the federal health care legislation if it passes, contending the federal legislation is unconstitutional.
The Virginia state legislature passed legislation to exempt the state’s citizens from any federal requirement that they purchase health insurance against their will.
NRO
March 17th, 2010 at 5:35 am
Hey, you Marxist dumbasses:
46.3% of primary care physicians (family medicine and internal medicine) feel that the passing of health reform will either force them out of medicine or make them want to leave medicine.
New England Journal of Medicine
March 17th, 2010 at 6:03 am
Pluto:
“I would be willing to support starting over….”
Nonsense.
March 17th, 2010 at 6:08 am
Nonsense.
Liar.
March 17th, 2010 at 6:18 am
The liberals above are always wrong…….when proven so, they just recalibrate and move on to the next topic that can be manipulated. Remember Homelessness? The Cold War? Desert Storm? Welfare Reform? These have just been replaced by Global Warming and Healtcare. Remarkably, in many cases, it is the same “intelligentsia”, just more strident. For them, it is all about the centralization of power. Values, ideals and ethics are simply interchangeable tools used to attain their purpose. Remember that and prosper……melt the Congressional switchboard.
March 17th, 2010 at 7:13 am
A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 43% favor the health care plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats, while 53% oppose it. Those findings include 23% who Strongly Favor the plan and 46% who Strongly Oppose it.
There are twice as many people who “strongly oppose” the bill as there are people who “strongly favor” it.
March 17th, 2010 at 7:15 am
Pluto:
“Liar.”
Hmmmm….didn’t take you long to start the name calling, did it?
LOL.
March 17th, 2010 at 7:23 am
Geezer et al.
I would suggest you take a closer look at issue polling before cherry picking those that you thing support your views.
It is well known that the way a question or issue is framed in a poll and the specific wording that is used has a major impact on the responses.
Because of this, pollsters that have agendas (as many or most seem to) can try to, and often succeed, in obtaining the kind of results they want. This works for both sides, of course.
What that means is that throwing around polling results as a definitive measure of public sentiment is misguided.
As has been said before, the “polls” that really matter are elections, where people have a much broader range of information available with which to make their choice and the question is harder to manipulate (i.e., “If the election were held today, who would you vote for?”). Of course this could be be changed to “Would you vote for Obama even though his policies will result in a massive increase in the deficit?” by a dishonest polling group.
And we all know what the results of the last election were. Obama campaigned on health care reform, and he won. He has a mandate to do this regardless of what a Rasmussen poll or Republicans who want not to govern but to destroy Obama are saying.
In other words, all your bitching is pointless and worthless.
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/03/two-pictures-tell-story-on-health-care.html
March 17th, 2010 at 7:23 am
How about this one…….”George Bush is the Most Secretive President Ever? Obama will provide transparency.”
2008 Freedom of Information Act Request Denials – 47,000
2009 Freedom of Information Act Request Denials – 71,000
Facts, Stats, Ethics & Values are interchangeable to these guys…..for them, it’s about the centralization of power. It’s about your liberty……Melt the Congressional Switchboard…………applicable phone numbers at numerous sites such as hughhewitt.com, Mitt Romney’s homepage etc.
March 17th, 2010 at 7:28 am
name calling
Slippery as an eel, you fancy yourself. You can question my integrity, but I am the one that is name calling. I recall also calling you sanctimonious. As you say: LOL.
March 17th, 2010 at 7:35 am
“There is a segment of America that wouldn’t want any version of the bill. Any version. Because these people want to drown the government in a bathtub.”
Hah! Too true- A healthy distrust of government is a good thing.
“Why? So that the GOP can impede the process all over again? As George Bush used to say, “Fool me once…uh…” The GOP had its chance, but choose to squawk about Death Panels.
I would be willing to support starting over, if the GOP weren’t being categorically disingenuous in the request.”
Fair enough- but the GOP would do so at it’s peril if the measure was simple in scope and incorporated common sense reforms that most everyone can get behind- portability issues, lawsuit caps, going after Medicare Fraud, stuff like that.
Start there. See where that goes.
March 17th, 2010 at 9:31 am
Obama campaigned on health care reform, and he won. He has a mandate to do this regardless of what a Rasmussen poll or Republicans who want not to govern but to destroy Obama are saying.
Obama campaigned on health care in addition to other things, the main one being making government more transparent. That changed the day he took office. His has been more secretive than even Bush’s government could dare to be. Obama has a press compliant with his politics.
On health care, Obama has betrayed us and flipped on what he promised. For example, he said he would not tax health insurance plans of working people. John McCain advocated that as a way to reduce costs and demands on the system, and Obama called that a betrayal of the working man. McCain suffered losses as a result of his idea because even then it was unpopular with the citizens. Now, Obama is pushing the idea, which never was part of his “mandate”. He does not have a mandate to reform health care in the country because he is not doing it the way he said he would.
There are other things Obama has thrown under the bus, mainly because he was a cryptoProgressive and was not telling the citizens the truth about himself and his intentions. While other politicians have done the same thing, Obama is so far from the values of a large number of those who voted for him now that he has lost any mandate he might have imagined he had.
In spite of what you may assert, the specificity of pollsters like Rasmussen, whose accuracy in the past eight years has been impressive, reveals what I have stated. Obama no longer has the mandate you wish he had retained.
March 17th, 2010 at 10:14 am
“On health care, Obama has betrayed us and flipped on what he promised.”
Only if you voted for him. If you didn’t, he didn’t betray anything.
“He does not have a mandate to reform health care in the country because he is not doing it the way he said he would.”
Maybe that’s because he mistakenly (and foolishly, in my view) thought that he could win the participation and support of the GOP. Situations are not always predictable, and it is ridiculous to criticize someone for adapting.
“Obama is so far from the values of a large number of those who voted for him now that he has lost any mandate he might have imagined he had.”
Geezer, sometimes you make what seem to me to be reasonable criticisms. But mostly from you we are treated to inflammatory and unsubstantiated attacks of the kind seen here. He has not strayed from the “values” of people that voted for him because everyone who did so can clearly recognize how utterly disastrous it would have been to elect his opponent (we had 8 years to learn that lesson). In other words, “compared to what?”.
The mandate is in place until it is accomplished, and even as I criticize him on the details he deserves credit for perseverance (and patience).
March 17th, 2010 at 10:15 am
“In spite of what you may assert, the specificity of pollsters like Rasmussen, whose accuracy in the past eight years has been impressive”
Irrelevant to my point.
March 17th, 2010 at 10:23 am
Fair enough- but the GOP would do so at it’s peril if the measure was simple in scope and incorporated common sense reforms that most everyone can get behind- portability issues, lawsuit caps, going after Medicare Fraud, stuff like that.
Those examples you bring up would address cost. We need additional steps to address preexisting conditions and denying coverage. No matter how much cost is reduced, the insurance industry will always try to legally maximize to difference of profit and costs, and will do so at the expense of the people. It doesn’t matter if premiums are $50/year if you get denied coverage when you need it the most.
March 17th, 2010 at 11:09 am
- “2008 Freedom of Information Act Request Denials – 47,000
2009 Freedom of Information Act Request Denials – 71,000″ – That’s just funny. Part of my job is reviewing FOIA requests regarding my organization and its activities, and POTUS has never been involved in the decision process. The act itself specifies the very strict guidelines as to what’s releaseable and what’s not. In almost all instances, POTUS is not even aware of the stuff being considered. There’s way too much information left out of this report to make any conclusions about transparentcy.
March 17th, 2010 at 11:30 am
- “Fair enough- but the GOP would do so at it’s peril if the measure was simple in scope and incorporated common sense reforms that most everyone can get behind- portability issues, lawsuit caps, going after Medicare Fraud, stuff like that. – Let’s see: portability – it’s in there (Reed added in the ablility to go across state lines in the Senate Bill), and if you want real portability, you’d be for a public option so that an individual can take his policy with him no matter who he worked for an no matter what state he lived in. Lawsuit caps: wow, a whopping 1.5% of healthcare costs are attributable to lawsuits. If you eliminated lawsuits entirely, you still wouldn’t make a dent in healthcare costs. So why is this an issue? And also, why would you want to take away a patient’s only recourse for malpractice? Then there’s Medicare Fraud – gee, who doesn’t want to do something about that. That’s a nice motherhood statement, but where do you want to start? The repubs wouldn’t even come to the table with any ideas. If you actually have ideas, we’d all love to hear them.
March 17th, 2010 at 11:57 am
- “46.3% of primary care physicians (family medicine and internal medicine) feel that the passing of health reform will either force them out of medicine or make them want to leave medicine.
New England Journal of Medicine” – Uh, no:
http://www.nejmjobs.org/rpt/health-reform-may-reduce-physician-workforce.aspx
March 17th, 2010 at 12:16 pm
Dear poli:nothing left here but lefties,might as well shut the site down.
March 17th, 2010 at 12:31 pm
nothing left here but lefties
Plus a few posters like ATTILA and Geezer that are so far right that it balances everything out.
March 17th, 2010 at 12:50 pm
Jake-
Your points are made inceredibly worse if one third of the doctors decide to hang it up like they are considering if this montrosity passes.
http://www.themedicusfirm.com/pages/medicus-media-survey-reveals-impact-health-reform
I know a couple docs that are going to either close their patient rolls or hang it up entirely if this goes through due to the amount of paperwork and regulations they percieve coming their way.
Scarcity of doctors is by no means an improvement.
March 17th, 2010 at 12:51 pm
Poli… might as well shut the site down
Tha’t exactly what Poli did when he put mr. “embrace the recovery” Jokeleaf and acroso in charge of his blog over a year ago.
In effect, Polipundit.com has been officially SHUT DOWN since November 2009 when jokeleaf cried tears of joy for his new black marxist master – and then banned anyone who didn’t agree with his liberal dogma. Poli’s acceptance of Jokeleaf’s behavior just exposed the hypocrisy of this site for all to see.
It’s only purpose now, is to tie up the band-width of a few mindless liberals so that it doesn’t pollute other “real” conservative sites.
March 17th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
So the 45k Americans that will die this year is a small sacrifice to keep doctors from being inconvenienced by paperwork and following a new set of rules.
What you’re saying is we have a rationed care system. The 30 million without insurance need to be kept out or the system will collapse. This isn’t a model that needs to be preserved. Cutting just costs isn’t going to fix it. The system needs to be scrapped and redesigned. The status quo is a complete failure.
This country is fighting two wars because 3k people were killed in 2001. Every year 45k people die because of our health care system. But, as long as it’s American capitalism doing the killing, everything is fine. I, and many others, find this unacceptable. Capitalism, though an excellent model, still has it’s flaws. One of the flaws is we can’t mix the health and welfare of a population with a profit margin. When we do, we wind up with a system that classifies birth defects and spousal abuse as preexisting conditions.
March 17th, 2010 at 2:02 pm
Pluto:
“You can question my integrity”
More nonsense. You’re into the far left agenda up to your eyeballs. Live with it.
March 17th, 2010 at 2:03 pm
Jake-
Individuals make choices, it is their responsibility. If they chose to make bad decisions(smoke, eat fatty foods, try to weigh a 1000 pounds like that gawdawful chick on the news yesterday) there will be consequences. They also should make the choices to buy insurance.
Doctors are driven not only by an urge to help others, but also by an urge to make money like everyone else. I do not begrudge that in anyone. If we continually make life more difficult on them to practice their trade, where they have to expend more and more resources to handle more and more paperwork, etc. Why shouldn’t they quit?
Insurance companies ARE out for profit, but is that so evil? competition drives prices down overtime, always have. If there is money to be made, someone will figure out a way to make more of it than the next guywhile providing better product at a better price. Sure, Insurance companies ration care- but so does the VA, Medicare, and Medicaid. They all do. People die all the time. It sucks. We should all save more and plan ahead. I suggest Dave Ramsey. The responsibility is on YOU, not the gov’t- which is merely passing the costs on to our great grand kids.
Capitalism isn’t flawed- PEOPLE are. Always have been, always will be. With the freedom to make our decisions comes the regretful responsibility to live with our mistakes. If you do not have the freedom to make stupid decisions you are not free.
I’m not saying I trust big busines- I just understand them better because they are motivated by greed and profit- which means they need to a)keep my business, b)deliver on services to do so.
Government doesn’t give a rat’s ass- they get paid regardless. they keep their job regardless. All they do is grow and grow.
Get Government out of the way, let the market work.
March 17th, 2010 at 2:12 pm
More nonsense. You’re into the far left agenda up to your eyeballs. Live with it.
Liar.
March 17th, 2010 at 3:03 pm
You really believe the 30 million is entirely made up of the fat and lazy? Cancer is a choice? The problem with capitalism approach is that if it’s more profitable for you to die than to treat you, you die. Competition is a farce. The industry will always find a way to collude. The human element fucks up every system. The goal here is to not only to reduce costs, so health care coverage doesn’t become a luxury item, but to reduce that 30 million as much as possible.
That’s the debate congress should have been having instead of debating the validity of “death panels!!!” The HCR bill will pass. You can blame the crappiness of it on Democrats not having the balls to do what’s right and Republicans for being infantile assholes who completely removed themselves from the process. Hope the “Waterloo” gambit was worth it.
March 17th, 2010 at 3:31 pm
“You really believe the 30 million is entirely made up of the fat and lazy?”
Sadly, our society today is rather soft. We drown ourselves in debt rather than saving for our needs, nobody has cash for the doctor but seems to afford the big screen, cable and ipod. Debt, debt, debt. Bad decisions.
“Cancer is a choice?”
Nope, practically an inevitablity. Everyone should plan for their future rather than expect someone else to do it for them.
“The problem with capitalism approach is that if it’s more profitable for you to die than to treat you, you die.”
Unless you have made arrangements to change that paradigm. The problem with more involved government interference is it has NEVER proven to actually lower costs of ANYTHING, it merely moves them around, hides them, adds a bureacratic premium, and inevitably makes things worse.
You are correctly pointing out some shortfalls- I would argue they are directly or indirectly the result of government interference to begin with.
“Competition is a farce.”
When the Industries are able to use their lobbyist lackeys to prevent true competition, it can be.
“The industry will always find a way to collude. ”
See my last point.
“The goal here is to not only to reduce costs, so health care coverage doesn’t become a luxury item, but to reduce that 30 million as much as possible.”
If you reduce costs (which this bill doesn’t do), the coverage thing works itself out. No one has an issue with things that are inexpensive. They lost their focus.
“That’s the debate congress should have been having instead of debating the validity of “death panels!!!” The HCR bill will pass. You can blame the crappiness of it on Democrats not having the balls to do what’s right and Republicans for being infantile assholes who completely removed themselves from the process. Hope the “Waterloo” gambit was worth it.”
I Can’t honestly blame the Republicans for much- they have been reduced to such a minority they have been shut out from the beginning. The Dems cared more about control of the industry and the parcel of power than the cutting of costs. Hence, this monstrosity.
The Democrats lost focus on this early on- Obama screwed up letting Pelosi, Dorgan, Reid, etc run with it.
Part of why I hate it when Senators or Representatives run for President- they are too much part of that stupid committee, no leadership (we’d of had the same prob with McCain, I am sure).
60/40 it passes, we are screwed if it does.
March 17th, 2010 at 3:45 pm
There’s something to we can agree on – humans screw everything up by introducing greed and corruption.
Enough Poli for me. Need to find some green beer. Everyone be safe and have a good night.
March 17th, 2010 at 3:49 pm
We can also agree on Green Beer-
Happy St Pat’s, my friend!
March 17th, 2010 at 4:49 pm
Need to find some green beer.
Why drink crap? Drink something good.
March 17th, 2010 at 7:23 pm
“Why drink crap? Drink something good.”
“Do not cease to drink beer, to eat, to intoxicate thyself, to make love, and to celebrate the good days”- Eygyptian Proverb
POINT- Beer is ALWAYS good.
March 18th, 2010 at 3:12 am
Though dye looks best in crappy piss beer, it still works in the good stuff. Had me a green hefeweizen then Guinness the rest of the night.
FYI: green dye + Guinness = fail
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
-Benjamin Franklin
March 18th, 2010 at 5:19 am
I’m waiting for the Revolution. I’ll avoid violence myself; but we know the leftling trolls on this and other sites will be the first to die no matter who wins…
March 18th, 2010 at 5:22 am
Hitler was a struggling artist, an antiwar activist, a vegetarian, an animal lover, a closet bisexual, and he lived with his girlfriend. But he was straightforward about his desires.
The trolls around here haven’t got that much integrity.
March 18th, 2010 at 5:57 am
I’ll avoid violence myself
Of course you will. The biggest cowards I ever met in my life were wingnuts.