Stop Obamacare
By PoliPundit ~ November 20th, 2009 @ 6:13 pm
Your best way to stop Obamacare, and thus annihilate the ultra-liberal Democrat agenda? Donate to the League of American Voters.
They commissioned those polls that should give Democratic Senators Blanche Lincoln and Byron Dorgan sleepless nights.
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November 21st, 2009 at 6:14 am
Wake me up if someone comments.
November 21st, 2009 at 10:06 am
fruitless….can’t be repealed
cap and trade next
ACORN/SEIU handle all elections
we are now commie lite’
November 21st, 2009 at 10:38 am
It may not be repealed, but could it simply remain unfunded somehow, assuming the GOP takes control, with a mandate from clear-thinking voters who reject a government takeover…?
November 21st, 2009 at 12:14 pm
ACORN/SEIU handle all elections…
…and there are aliens frozen down in a high security storage facility below the Farragut North subway station in D.C.
Plus, get this, I heard that ACORN is trying to clone Hitler using DNA from his bones.
November 21st, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Hey Poli. Are you the only one writing posts now?
It wasn’t you or your writers. It’s from the GOP bailing on their principles.
And some of the nut cases that were all for Palin.
I take issue with her for the reason that, when campaigning, some people yelled out that he’s a terrorist of even “Kill Him” . That’s wrong. It just is.
Now with this psalm whatever it is bumper stickers. That’s just wrong too.
But I’d like to bring up Palin.
A few weeks ago, she was blasting the Prez for going around and hitting the tv circuit speaking about healthcare.
Now, This is my point. Because I know someone will make the ingenious remark that she’s not the Prez.
This is my point. She was Gov of Alaska. She quit and walked off the job for a book deal. That’s obvious. Now, she’s doing the circuit.
See where I’m going with this? She’s an opportunist. And a bad one at that.
Hang in there Poli. I’m sure the Dems will screw up enough in the near future. They always do.
November 21st, 2009 at 1:24 pm
THe only thing the media will cover is when Blanche votes AGAINST the bill.
THis vote today, no one will ever hear about it. Swept under rug.
Cloture? Who ever heard of cloture?
November 22nd, 2009 at 4:48 am
As I was saying, it’s all about the media coverage.
What vote last night?
You mean that vote to “open debate”.
We will hear about it though when Blanche votes against it later. In that 56-44 squeaker. And so the Democrats will have figured out the strategy to victory… on climate, on immigration, etc.
If people really care. Polipundit, if you really care, it will take hard ball. Democrats play it. And they win.
November 22nd, 2009 at 6:53 am
“…annihilate the ultra-liberal Democrat agenda”
Maybe you can convince get Sarah Palin to switch sides and begin to travel around the country in her tourbus to slam, slander and lie about rightwing positions like she’s doing about the left? That has really worked out well for your side….
November 22nd, 2009 at 7:49 am
You can thank the Democrats for killing Obamacare:
“In other words, having put the public option in the base bill, Reid is now at the Republicans’ mercy. This is precisely the kind of jam I wanted him to avoid. To get out of this, Reid is going to have to craft a compromise that can satisfy all 60 Democrats. Bernie Sanders and Roland Burris have to be every bit as onboard with the plan as Ben Nelson and Mary Landrieu. That appears to be his challenge. It won’t be easy.”
http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2009/11/22/103431/55
November 22nd, 2009 at 10:09 am
I just saw Carley Fiorina on John King. She was very impressive on the issues and has some personal connection to the health care debate. A very important theme is emerging and Carley touched it just right – California is a case study in the results of Obama’s proposed policies and the state is nearly bankrupt.
Barbara Boxer is going to lose this time. You heard it hear first.
November 22nd, 2009 at 10:47 am
“California is a case study in the results of Obama’s proposed policies and the state is nearly bankrupt.”
As usual, this kind of argument can only work in Wingnut World where 1) people are too stupid to recognize that this is yet another baldface lie, and 2) the media help them out by putting the crap out there without any attempt at all to point out how false it is.
November 22nd, 2009 at 10:50 am
Here’s another idea: Why don’t you folks just cut through all the crap and organize a real, honest-to-god coup d’etat? You know how much easier that is than having to always try to come up with, you know, counter arguments or positions or have to explain your radical views to people in a way that makes than sound less than the crazy pablum that they are.
According to nearly everything I hear and read from the right on “obamacare” it will bring down our country…so there’s your justification right there, correct?
Go for it wingnuts…I’d love to meet one of you in the streets in anger, believe you me.
November 22nd, 2009 at 12:06 pm
Inside the Tea Party Movement:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCBvu9MX-po&feature=channel_page
November 23rd, 2009 at 6:19 am
Good News!
RASMUSSEN: Support for Health Care Plan Falls to New Low. 56% against, only 38% for.
h/t Instapundit
Great to see honest Americans waking up!
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:32 pm
More good news…the CBO says the Senate health care bill will reduce the deficit by $127 billion over 10 years and up to $650 billion over 20 years.
November 23rd, 2009 at 2:12 pm
the CBO says the Senate health care bill will reduce the deficit by $127 billion over 10 years and up to $650 billion over 20 years.
Sure….since dead citizens (from waiting on government treatment) don’t need healthcare and therefore don’t contribute ‘much’ to the deficit….
November 23rd, 2009 at 7:27 pm
Actually there will be more people needing care in the future, Earl old boy, not fewer. Nice try though…not.
November 23rd, 2009 at 8:18 pm
True, more citizens will be needing care – but they won’t be getting it, since there is only so much money available for certain specific services (especially at the rate your boy and his lackeys are going through it)….this will become evident as time goes on, and as you and your kind continue to screw the system up. Already the government is looking to pave the way for health services to be considered “unnecessary”. Treatment cost cutting in the name of savings will be the way to go. “Denial” of services will be the name of the game on a massive scale, and it’s also a river you obama lackeys are living in…
November 23rd, 2009 at 8:50 pm
A traitor! He can’t borrow my lifesize Obama cardboard cutout any more!!!
“The Wall Street Journal reports Joe Lieberman is digging in his heels. He will filibuster any health care legislation that contains a public option, even if the legislation allows states to opt-out…”
There may be just one liberal in government who recognizes the truth and has the courage to act on it. A leftist who isn’t an angry asshole…imagine…
November 23rd, 2009 at 8:56 pm
… is looking to pave the way for health services to be considered “unnecessary”. Treatment cost cutting in the name of savings will be the way to go. “Denial” of services will be the name of the game on a massive scale
That’s exactly what’s going on right now. But it’s ok if it’s done for profit, amirite?
November 23rd, 2009 at 9:06 pm
Mike,
You are indeed correct. And 82% of people who have insurance like what they’ve got and don’t want it screwed with.
Is there something that can/should be done for those who do not have insurance, or who are denied care? Absolutely….but the answer is not in this government takeover scheme. “Government healthcare” is not about health….it’s about government control, dication and manipulation, leaving you to the tender mercies of Lord Obama and whatever committee he appoints in washington to decide if money is available for your condition.
November 24th, 2009 at 1:45 am
Funny how government fear disappears when there’s a Republican in the White House. Imagine the exploding wingnut heads if it were Obama and the Dems that drafted the Patriot Act.
November 24th, 2009 at 1:53 am
“…leaving you to the tender mercies of Lord Obama and whatever committee he appoints in washington to decide if money is available for your condition” – As opposed to being left at the tender mercies of an insurance company with a profit motive to deny care. Your statement is stupid on its face. And how many of those 82%ers that like their insurance have never used it? How many of them don’t know that they’re actually underinsured, and in the event of a real catastophy will be left holding the bag even after years of paying premiums? How many of them realize that after a serious illness, they’ll be dropped by their carrier? How many of them know that if they are dropped, they’ll not be able to get insured because they now have a pre-existing condition? How many of them know that if they lose their job, they lose their insurance? The insurance companies and the repubs succeed because of the ignorance of the masses. Most the people that declared bankruptcy because of medical bills acually had health insurance.
You should be asking yourself some serious questions, like why we pay more than twice as much as most of the western nations for healthcare, yet our system is less than mediocre in comparison. Why has health insurance gone up so much higher than inflation and wages? And how long can you depend on your employer to foot the bill for a good chunk of your health insurance, and what will you do when he drops it? ODS is blinding you to a serious train wreck ahead, and your buddies the republicans aren’t going to do anything about it because they’re owned by the insurance companies. Worse, they’ll come up with another Medicare Part D solution that bankrupts the country, makes it harder for you to get affordable care, and puts money into the pockets of the insurance companies. Remember Medicare Part D? That’s the republican’s way of fixing healthcare. You really want those guys back in charge? Imagine where we’d be if they’d have been successful in putting Social Security into the stock market. People are afraid to even bring that up (certainly the repubs are). And the repubs wouldn’t even put the cost of the two wars on the books. Remember, these guys simply LOST $10B in Iraq – they just misplaced it! And there are no investigations on this! Think about who’s looking out for you – it’s not the repubs.
If the dems fail, you’ll get a short term jolly, but the problem is still here, and it will eventually break us all. You will get sick one day, and the bill will wipe you out. And your republican buddies in congress and the senate don’t give a damn – socialized medicine works very well for them.
November 24th, 2009 at 3:40 am
Mikey,
Many of the healthcare problems you outline above are certainly valid, and the repubs did help contribute to the problems we’re in. But many people of genuine good will don’t believe (as do I) that a new massive, ineffective government bureaucracy could possibly fix the problems you describe. They will however certainly add to them, and bankrupt the nation in the process. But come on: Truly you don’t believe that the dems aren’t owned by special interests groups? Are you really that naieve? Both parties are owned by big money. Your statement is stupid when looked at closely…
“Why has health insurance gone up so much higher than inflation and wages?” One answer: wildly irresponsible law suits brought on by greedy trial lawyers, represented quite will by liberal dems. I have doctor friends who certainly can verify this, and they have to protect themselves by ordering more and more tests. We need TORT REFORM! If our healthcare system is so bad, why do people want to come here for treatment? Do you not read of how socialized medicine is bankrupting nations that tried it and is harming the people they are supposed to help? Oh, and by the way: An insurance company is not going to throw you in jail or fine you if you don’t keep them as your provider. Your liberal buddies in congress will, especially the reigning prom queen of the house…. (read the house bill)….If you’re going to ask serious questions about health care, then you ought to seriously consider the long-term ramifications of the solution put forward. The liberal answer of big government is not going to solve the problems, it will make them much worse, adding to trillions of dollars in waste and fraud. (In fact, Your very post above already contains good examples of government waste and neglect above) If that bill is passed, you will be dictated to by Big Government in every facet of your life, so called “health care” is just the beginning….You seriously need to get over your OIS (obama infatuation syndrome) and see the light. The problem of effective health care needs to be seriously addressed by both parties, and what’s being put forward isn’t it.
November 24th, 2009 at 3:54 am
Oh, and by the way: if government mandated “healthcare” is so great, then why aren’t all the guys/gals in congress REQUIRED to get it themselves?
That answer should be most instructive, if you pay attention.
And try this for government efficiency: POLITICO: CMS: House bill increases health care costs. “Democrats have promised that health reform would reduce health care costs, but legislation the House passed last week would increase costs over the next decade by $289 billion. By 2019, health costs would rise to 21.1 percent of GDP compared to 20.8 under current law, according to an actuarial report prepared by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services.”
http://www.politico.com/livepulse/1109/CMS_House_bill_increases_health_care_costs_.html#
We can do better in reforming healthcare without bankrupting the country.
November 24th, 2009 at 4:04 am
The young will pay for socialized medicine; they must in order to keep the ponzi scheme afloat. Put forward by the “conservative” Washington Post, no less.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/22/AR2009112201237.html?nav=rss_opinion/columns
November 24th, 2009 at 7:17 am
Reasonable healthcare reforms that will never see the light of day, thanks to Big Government libbies running the asylum known as congress:
http://www.forbes.com/2009/11/19/health-reform-economy-jobs-congress-opinions-contributors-coburn-troy.html
November 24th, 2009 at 9:20 am
In the words of Charles Krauthammer, regarding the health care bill being debated:
“What you want is simplicity, to strip away the inefficiencies. This [bill] will add on to them and it’s going to make it utterly incoherent.
Two examples: tort reform — that would save half a trillion dollars to $2 trillion in a decade — is not in here at all. In fact, in the House bill, it’s discouraged. You lose federal money if you’re a state and you impose tort reform.
Second is the idea of being able to purchase your health insurance across state lines. It’s a ridiculous prohibition. You buy life insurance across state lines. You buy auto insurance. You buy oranges across state lines. If you didn’t, they would be extremely expensive in Wisconsin in the winter.
And the answer isn’t the establishment of a public option in oranges in Wisconsin. It’s allowing [interstate] competition. But the liberals won’t allow [interstate] competition because they want a public option as an avenue into nationalized health care, and the excuse is it [the public option] will introduce competition.”
November 24th, 2009 at 10:31 am
- “Why has health insurance gone up so much higher than inflation and wages?” One answer: wildly irresponsible law suits brought on by greedy trial lawyers, represented quite will by liberal dems.” – This is complete and utter fiction. Did you know that only 1% of the total cost of healthcare is due to lawsuits? 1% – that’s it. So if you totally elimianted lawsuits, you wouldn’t even make a dent in healthcare costs. But you will have eliminated an individual’s right to redress for medical malpractice and life changing mistakes made by medical practitioners. Tort Reform is a republican red herring – a drop in the bucket – but it is an issue that republicans can grab. Most states already have limits on lawsuit awards, and most never see a courtroom. And you know what? Insurance costs still go up.
- “An insurance company is not going to throw you in jail or fine you if you don’t keep them as your provider. Your liberal buddies in congress will, especially the reigning prom queen of the house…. (read the house bill)….” – Neither will the government under the house bill. This is another right wing lie. Most people won’t even be eligible for the government plan. If you get your insurance through your job, you’re not eligible. If you do qualify and don’t want the gov option, you can buy it from any insurance carrier you want. But you must have insurance. If not, you will be taxed on it. If you pay your taxes, you will not go to jail. If you don’t pay your taxes, you will go to jail. It’s been that way since the US started collecting taxes way before you were born. Let me make it simple: You will not go to jail for not having government insurance. You will not even go to jail for having no insurance at all. You will go to jail for not paying your taxes. Read the house bill. Republicans and Fox News are lying to you.
- ” If that bill is passed, you will be dictated to by Big Government in every facet of your life, so called “health care” is just the beginning….” – This is already the case for a great many things. You gave the previous administration the right to monitor your phone calls, and you’ve given the government the ability to label you an “enemy combatant” and lock you away for years without a trial. You have no problem with this but you do have a problem with the government saying you don’t have the right to burdon the taxpayers with your emergency room visits because you don’t want to get insured.
- “Oh, and by the way: if government mandated “healthcare” is so great, then why aren’t all the guys/gals in congress REQUIRED to get it themselves?” – If the bill passes, they will be, just like you. They won’t be eligible for the gov option, since their employer (you and me) provides insurance for them… So they already have government mandated healthcare. I haven’t heard any of them complain about it, have you?
November 24th, 2009 at 10:45 am
- “The young will pay for socialized medicine; they must in order to keep the ponzi scheme afloat. ” – This is not socialized medicine. Socialized medicine is when the gov owns the facilities, the equipment, the medicine, and employs the medical staff. I had this when I served in the USAF, and it was a damn good deal. The president has this, and the congress can opt for it when they get really sick – and they usually do. The only people that can’t use this system is plain ol’ civilians like you and me. If the bill passes, we still don’t get a system like this. A very small number of us will have the opportunity to directly pay the government for insurance, and the government will pay civilian hospitals and medical staff to take care of them. The rest of us will continue to be ripped off by our employee provided private insurers.
November 24th, 2009 at 10:58 am
Mikey,
I sincerely appreciate your thoughts. Now, Please provide the links to back them up. (such as “Did you know that only 1% of the total cost of healthcare is due to lawsuits? 1% – that’s it. So if you totally elimianted lawsuits, you wouldn’t even make a dent in healthcare costs…”)
However: “Most people won’t even be eligible for the government plan. If you get your insurance through your job, you’re not eligible. If you do qualify and don’t want the gov option, you can buy it from any insurance carrier you want.” Until those companies are driven out of business by the government, which can always print more money to finance its public option. It’s hard to compete against the government….
By the way, I remember when the Patriot Act was passed concerning the monitoring of enemy combatants…how it could quite easily be used on law-abiding citizens, especially under this current administration…I tend to agree with you here.
No exemption for congress on the public option? Are you sure?
http://townhall.com/columnists/JillianBandes/2009/10/19/congress_keeps_gold-plated_health_care_for_themselves
November 24th, 2009 at 11:05 am
- “In the words of Charles Krauthammer (yada, yada, yada)” – Mr. Krauthammer is misleading you. He’s giving you a very big number followed by a much smaller number to represent lawsuit costs over a decade. And he knows that the actual costs are even less than the small number. The big number came out of his ass. And he never compares that to the actual cost of heathcare, which would completely dwarf either of his numbers. He spends way to much time on Fox News.
- “What you want is simplicity, to strip away the inefficiencies…” – Which the dems tried to do when the tried to cut Medicare Advantage – a government effort to subsidize private insurers so they could compete with Medicare. The repubs (who have always hated Medicare) are completely up inarems over this. So much for stripping away inefficientcies…
- “Second is the idea of being able to purchase your health insurance across state lines. It’s a ridiculous prohibition…” – Sure lets let insurance companies with no state mandates for coverage compete with insurance companies with state mandates. Lets see how that will work out. Ironically, a public option would make this work, as it would become the baseline for nationwide heath coverage. If a private insurance carrier carried the same coverage as the public option, there’s no reason why it couldn’t compete across state lines. But the private insurnace companies (and Mr. Krauthammer) don’t want to do that – they want to provide as little coverage as possible and maintain as little reserve as possible. We did this with banks and investment houses about ten years ago – how well did that work out?
November 24th, 2009 at 11:08 am
By the way, thank you for your service in the USAF! An incredible branch of our military…I’m glad they took care of you while serving.
But wouldn’t you agree that caring for the members of the military is one thing, but caring for the entire nation is a bigger task to accomplish? I think that’s the whole point, is it not? How can the government successfully manage healthcare when it can scarcely manage say medicare, for example? Look at the waste, inefficiency, abuse, etc…
I agree that the private system has its flaws, I’ve been subject to them as well, but the alternative is…the government option? Is there anything else…?
November 24th, 2009 at 11:10 am
Is the healthcare industry a specialty area of yours, or line of work?
November 24th, 2009 at 11:53 am
- “I sincerely appreciate your thoughts. Now, Please provide the links to back them up. (such as “Did you know that only 1% of the total cost of healthcare is due to lawsuits? 1% – that’s it. – Here’s one. And that was just a quick google. There are a bunch more because it’s kind of old news. The problem is the interviewers don’t do much research, so they never question nonsensical statements from our politicians and the ususal suspects of gasbag pundits. But that’s one of the reasons why the repub plan does so little for heathcare – it focuses on tort reform, and not much else. It’s cheaper than the dem plan only because it allows the private insurers to reduce coverage, and it will only increase the number of insured by about 3-5M. In the end, fewer people will have insurance than before the plan was implemented. But it will reduce your insurnance bill by 1-3%, though you’ll have less coverage. That’s why nobody really takes it seriously.
- “Until those companies are driven out of business by the government…” – Why would they be driven out of business? Very few people can actually take the private option – you have to 1) be in a state that hasn’t opted out; 2) be unemployed or have an employer that doesn’t provide coverage; 3) you can’t get or afford private coverage. These are “ands” not “ors”. Nobody else can get it. The blue dogs have really killed the bill to the point that it actually helps the private insurers – now you have to have insurance, and most of us have nowhere to go but to the private companies. And I wouldn’t worry about them going out of business. Any company that can pay their CEO $57K/hr can afford to do a little trimming.
- ” It’s hard to compete against the government….” – Not really. FedEx and UPS are doing pretty well. Harvard, Yale, and even USC are doing pretty well against those public schools, too. Taxis do well even thogh there are all those public city buses. The key is to provide a service that is perceived to be better than the public institutions. If you’re providing the exact same thing an 10x the cost, you’ll have to make some changes, and that may not be a bad thing. But around here, nobody wants to change anything.
- “No exemption for congress on the public option? Are you sure?” – It’s not an exemption. Just like you and I, Congress can’t take the public option because they have emplyer provided health insurance (it’s pretty good, isn’t it) according to the house and senate bills. I suppose we the people could elect to drop insurance coverage for our employees, and force all government employees to take the government option, but nobody’s made that proposal. In any event, inside the option, their are many tiers of plans, from bare bones to cadilac, the participant gets to pick. The top tier plan would probably be pretty good. Of course, the employee doesn’t have to take the gov option – he can always go with a private company. That’s the thing everybody seems to be missing. If the private plans are so much better than the gov option, why would anyone opt for it?
- “By the way, thank you for your service in the USAF!” – Your welcome.
- “But wouldn’t you agree that caring for the members of the military is one thing, but caring for the entire nation is a bigger task to accomplish?” – Probably. But the military has to keep its members extremely healthy to maintain levels of readiness – the general population doesn’t have that requirement. Since I was on flight status, I had a lot of services that most folks don’t need. It could balance out. But that’s max-nix ’cause this kind of plan is not on the table. Too bad, too.
November 24th, 2009 at 11:59 am
Mikey,
Thank you for your thoughtful responses!
November 24th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
- “Is the healthcare industry a specialty area of yours, or line of work?” – I question my leaders, so I check their answers every now and then. Actually, I work for the #3 defense contractor, building satellites for the military. Strange job for a lib, huh?
November 24th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
- “Thank you for your thoughtful responses!” – Thank you; it’s rare to have a nice conversation on these blogs.
November 24th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
I am certainly willing to listen to a person’s take on issues, presented cogently….facts are facts and in the end truth (usually, hopefully) bubbles to the surface, and is not to be feared but welcomed.
“Actually, I work for the #3 defense contractor, building satellites for the military. Strange job for a lib, huh? ”
Heh! Just don’t sabotage them to spite any conservatives around you….
Take care!
November 24th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
OK, Earl, here’s something for you to read:
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/NEJMp0910138v1
“This…report in the New England Journal Of Medicine lays out the facts about the cost to society in lost lives, productivity and money for failing to assure that everyone is covered by health insurance. And the costs of treating them late in preventable emergency situations is far, far higher than it would otherwise be. This should be obvious, but it’s not.”
In other words, everyone suffers more when so many people are uninsured and don’t receive proper coverage. It is interesting, is it not, that our costs are so high AND our coverage so low in this country compared to European nations & Canada. The point being that there is very likely to be a direct correlation between the two.
November 28th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
So, Polipundit, are you still proud of how you bashed Bush over immigration? Are you still proud of your “not one dime” comment to not helping Republican Conservatives get elected in the last election?
Are your commenters still calling Bush Arbushto, el Presidente etc.
Do you long for the good old days when Bush was in office and this foolishness wasn’t taking place?
You played a big part in turning the congress and the WH over to Democrats. Are you proud of yourself now? Do you still have your fancy car with all the accoutrements or do you even have a job now?
Where have all your writers and cheerleaders gone? None of the old gang here that I have seen at least.